Post removed. Good luck all.
I hear what you are saying. Dr. P. had a woman training with him when I had my reversal. He assured me she would not be performing any part of the surgery, just pre-surgery prep and observation. I think I signed off on some form as well. I think I was asked if video could be taken as well but declined that, not sure. Yet more reasons why to never put yourself at the mercy of the doctors unless you have to.
On a side note I am less than a week from my 1 year mark and I have to say I’ve had my best few days in a long time. Things have pretty steadily improved in the last 8 weeks and I am cautiously hopeful that things might continue to improve in the coming months as well.
I’m glad to hear you’ve been trending better, that’s definitely good news.
Stay on top of your count (SA’s). If your reversal fails, and you still think your congested, there’s always papaya seed powder to fall back on.
I never had my SA’s done. I am curious though. I had congestive pain before reversal, but so far the congestion has been relieved since reversal. Thanks for tip on papaya seed, I’ll be sure to remember that.
Dr. P told me with every year that goes by there is a small percentage (~3%) that the reversal will scar off (close). He then claimed that even when this happens the pain usually doesn’t come back. But who knows if he’s massaging the claims on both, right?
I would definitely recommend getting an SA. Theres no point in assuming you are fertile, wearing condoms, assuming this n that far as what’s going on with you, and have no absolutely proof for anything, especially when a simple SA would answer so many questions, and/or assumptions. Not getting an SA can actually lead to a lot of silly head games.
I used to get my SA’s done at a place that had a huge bathroom complete with a leather couch, TV, DVDs, magazines, etc. I didn’t feel uncomfortable taking care of business there, it was definitely turn key, and the results were accurate as my sample was fresh. My insurance covered a lot of the cost, and it seems I had to pay 20-40 dollars out of pocket per visit.
I recommend getting an SA done every 3-6 months indefinitely. Personally, I would not exceed 6 months.
Far as the failure rate of some of the reversal surgeons that get mentioned here regularly go, I’d say that your surgeon has given many people some detailed data that sounded pretty honest to me. I don’t recall what I’ve read down to the wire, but I know where to look for that information. It seems the data suggested a high failure rate, and it seems “at least” half of them fail by the one year mark.
There are several guys on this forum that had a reversal with your surgeon, and many of the reversals failed by month 6.
Post removed. Good luck all.
Can this actually be the case ??
In recent times I have looked more into reversal statistics and have found such difference of opinion both medical and from others.
It’s actually quite frustrating as it’s very hard to know what the actual true figure is,on reversal surgeon I spoke to directly offered a 85% full pain resolution.
Another guys PA sent me on info and stated that they recommend to wait at least 2 years (if possible) as he believes it can lessen spontaneously within this time frame.He also offers a 50% full pain resolution.
Based on everything I know about this, my answer would be yes, but not in all cases.
Several pvps reversal docs here in the states agree that when reversals fail, the pain doesn’t return in many cases.
I wish there were much more scientific study of this problem. Maybe what happens is that the vas gets mostly blocked with scar tissue, such that most sperm are blocked, but enough fluid can get out to prevent discomfort? Maybe nerves re-connect up and stop complaining so much?
@Ethan_Scruples, all good points.
If I wrote out everything I know about this, it would be very long, and in the end, nobody would be any more certain far as answers go. Honestly, I’ve probably wrote most of it out in the last 3-4 reversal threads that are 100~ posts long.
If you read about what happens to men post vas far as short term, and long term blockage, blowouts, scarring, etc, etc, there’s to many variables, and they vary man to man.
Tack on immune systems, the body’s ability to isolate the threat of a foreign substance in the body such as spermatozoa, this stuff gets very technical, and I don’t know anyone that has all the answers, or can answer better than another far as pvps doc’s to doc’s go. Beleive me, I’ve asked some of the best of the best many years ago, and they didn’t know everything.
Vasectomy is intended to be permanent. Once the blood testies barrier is broken, the consequences are very likely permanent. As others have said, you can’t undo the vasectomy, but that isn’t to be confused with the idea that it’s impossible you can’t make better out of it.
Unfortunately, once you tack on the risks involved far as nerve damage, the pelvic floor, complications, failure, making things worse, etc, etc. This stuff gets beyond complicated, and gets a bit sketchy.
What I’m saying is a big part of why exhausting conservative treatments first is recommended before any corrective surgery. It’s not a hard fast rule, but it has it’s purpose.
Maybe the SA’s show that you aren’t fertile, but it’s because the immune system is sensitized and kills all of the sperm before they make it out the front door…
I feel pretty confident saying your body doesn’t kill the sperm either, or not in the vast majority of cases, although that would probably be a good thing if it did, lol (a hypothetical joke).
It causes the sperm to be immotile, isolates them, etc, etc. We can prove a bit of that at minimum.
So at one year post-reversal performed by Dr. P. here was my sperm count:
He also told me, “7 motif/ high calcium” (did I hear him right?)
Note: these are my first and only sperm count results.
I understand that this is low, but for pain purposes how bad (or not-so bad) is this?
@crotalus97, I’m not sure what kind of documentation you have far as the SA you speak of above. I’ve never seen, nor heard anything like that before far as the numbers you speak of, etc. 1 million sperm/ejaculate?
Below is a copy of some documentation I received years ago post redo reversal. It’s easy to understand, and covers the mainers, and/or basics. I got the paperwork from the place I did my SA at (no middle man).
I’m almost certain there’s another version of an SA that covers some other things, and it seems I’ve heard that version refered to as a “complete SA”. Seems it costs more to.
My SA results (semen analysis results) below are focused on volume, count, and motility.
@crotalus97, Just a wild guess at what “one million sperm / ejaculate” might mean here, and it doesn’t translate well at all if you have your facts straight.
Considering I have 154 million in my total ejaculate in the SA results above, 1 million in your total ejaculate doesn’t sound good at all.
If you understand my paperwork correctly, you see that my motility was 74%, which translates into 112 million “motile sperm” in my total ejaculate (part of the 154 million).
In your case, and at this point, we have no idea what your motility is.
If you have a middle man involved with your SA results, as it seems you do, just have them send you a copy of the results, or go to the place that did the testing and get a copy. I have a copy of every single SA I ever had done.
I’m hoping you are mistaken far as your SA numbers go.
@crotalus97, idk why you not get an SA at approximately 6 weeks post reversal, followed by another 6 weeks later, and another 3 months later, another 3 months after that, and so fourth. That would’ve been appropriate.
I had one every three months up till 18~ months out. My numbers were fairly stable shortly post redo, but definitely declined a bit for the most part every 3 months. Seems at 18~ months I was over 100 million still, but I went 6 months with no SA at the advice of my peers, and at 24-26 months out, I was zero million.
Catching problems, poor numbers, poor motility, etc early is key far as keeping some reversals from failing early in the game, and that’s why the protocols I spoke of above would’ve been a whole lot more appropriate far as post reversal follow up protocols go.
What I’m saying is also why I tell everyone to keep up with their SA’s, and don’t exceed 3-6 months in-between them. Based on my own experience, and what I’ve personally seen, read, etc, NSAID’s, steroids, prednisone, medrol dose packs, etc will not be effective in saving failed reversals. You got to catch the problems early.
And just for the curious, my first SA numbers at 6 weeks out post redo were low, and the motility was poor. I never took any prednisone, just celebrex. I followed all my surgeons post op protocols, and advice down to the wire. At 6 weeks out I was approximately 30-60 million, and 30-40% were motile. Seems my numbers, and motility peaked by month 6ish~.
At six weeks post-reversal I had such terrible pain which was triggered by ejaculation. At three months I was still too scared to ejaculate. Dr. P. never encouraged me to get my SA numbers. It was a rough year for me and so only recently did I even care what my numbers were. I requested for my SA records, when I get them I’ll post. Thanks for your replies @RingoStar.
I hear you brother. That’s pretty odd that you never received any encouragement to get an SA ever. I highly doubt your reversal surgeon has the same protocols with his purely for fertility reversals, or at least I hope not.
Remember what I said above far as some doc’s don’t even believe congestion is even relevant to pvps. They believe the benefit is more about removing damaged, entrapped, scarred, burnt, clipped, leaking, etc, etc ends of the vas more than anything else, and perhaps letting your body attempt to heal itself over time.
If you weren’t ejaculating every 24-48 hours post reversal regularly, that’s said to be a no no far as trying to keep the pipes open over time, and these protocols begin 2-3 weeks post reversal.
Remember what I’ve also said in several other threads regarding fertility isn’t always a factor in better outcomes post reversal either.
Last I knew, you were trending better. Hopefully that’s still the case regardless of your fertility status.
When my urologist discussed reversal with me, he actually asked me if I would get semen analysis post reversal. For his pain patients, he actually lets them decide if they want an analysis or not. His reasoning is that some men will be doing great, and be getting significant pain reductions, only to find out that sperm never returned to the ejaculate, which in turns can cause mental distress. There’s a good chance the pain is caused by post reversal congestion, but the mental distress of knowing it failed from a fertility standpoint can’t be ignored. I told him I would probably check just to know if I need to consider other forms of birth control. I’d be happy with either outcome as long as the pain decreased. I don’t necessarily want to be fertile though.