Post Vasectomy Pain Forum

Iliopsoas Muscle

I’ve been digging through the old alt.support.vasectomy USENET archive. Very interesting reading. The exact same conversations that are being had today on forums like www.reddit.com/r/vasectomy or the Facebook vasectomy support group were being had more than 20 years ago on USENET. I think it was started by David Brown, who had a website that was the precursor to www.vasectomy-information.com and eventually transitioned to that website. I think @RingoStar told me that David later sold that website to someone else.

Same types of conversations. Bunch of guys who want to talk about vasectomy. All the same topics. Occasionally a poster comes on and describes their PVPS problem. The “regulars” offer some thoughts about why it’s not a problem worth telling anyone not to get a vasectomy over.

Anyway, this is one of the posts from July 2000:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.support.vasectomy/hclBjZYiV94

And here is the link someone suggests:

http://www.prostate.org/muscle.html

From the linked article in 1999:

Urethral pain, severe pain in the epididymis and testicle, post-ejaculate pain, post-urination pain, post-bowel-movement pain, “groin” pain, knee pain, “hip joint” pain, abdomen pain, and back pain. Pain was of the “burning” or “tingling” type as well as the “pulled muscle” type.
Other symptoms included a weakened urine stream, weakened erection, and weakened orgasm. Various treatments of these symptoms have, at one time or another, included the following: Massive doses of antibiotics, muscle-relaxants, antidepressants, painkillers, and hot baths. None of these “treatments” were effective in relieving my symptoms–not one! Does this sound all too familiar?

Here is an animation to show which muscle we are talking about:

Bottom line, the nerves that get mad when you clip the vas (e.g. genitofemoral) go straight through the iliopsoas and if that muscle freezes up it causes all sorts of symptoms that we call PVPS.

I’m convinced that IP muscle tightness/weakness/spasm/dysfunction/whatever is a significant component for a lot of PVPS guys. That also makes an argument for why some guys get some relief from physical therapy.

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I really hate the term pvps myself. To me, it’s just a lumped sum term for a wide array of well known and well documented complications that are a direct result of vasectomy.

It’s rather comical to me that the majority of people think pvps is just a myth, extremely rare, and so on.

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Yup, my psoas is all jacked up. It takes a lot of work to loosen it up and then my nebula of pvps symptoms is much better. Takes almost nothing to set it off again. One PT I saw said she’s treated many pvps cases where the psoas is the main problem.

I think PVPS is a useful catchall for these symptoms. It identifies the cause. Breaking it down into smaller specific symptoms would let uros further minimize the risk and deflect the cause. But on the other hand it does kinda obscure the severity, range, and ruinous effects. Sometimes I even have a hard time believing all the crap I’m experiencing is from the vasectomy.

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Unfortunately, none of us can snap our fingers and switch to the other universe – the one where we didn’t get a vasectomy – and see how we feel there.

It definitely seems plausible that there can be a butterfly effect when it comes to the human body.

I have no doubt the vasectomy set it all off. I’m just shocked at the range problems and all the different manifestations of pain.

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Check out this reddit post from today:

Dude had a vasectomy in March 2019. Two months later all hell broke loose. Connected? I sure don’t know.

While we’re on the topic. Has anyone had issues with their inguinal ligament? Mine will get so taught it feels like a bone. The ligament itself is not painful and I can usually release it by massaging it. The psoas minor I believe is the muscle attached to it, but it’s too deep to be massaged directly. But when it’s taught it corresponds to when I’m having pain around the public bone. PT had not been able to help me there.

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And wow that guy in the Reddit post is having a tough go. I would definitely describe some of my problems as neuromuscular decline. Part of what finally got me off the fence on seeking a reversal was noticing how weak I had become. I’m not exercising like I used to for obvious reasons but I started having stability problems just walking.

Post vasectomy pain syndrome (PVPS) is a catch all by definition, but the vast majority of people don’t understand the definition nor the terminology of pvps nor syndrome at face value.

The term post vasectomy pain syndrome (pvps) certainly doesn’t identify the cause of pvps as pvps is a “syndrome” - * noun disease, condition

Unfortunately, the definition of pvps will certainly vary doctor to doctor, urologist to urologist, entity to entity, and so on.

The definition of syndrome below.

The definition of pvps below.

Didn’t mean to argue with you Ringo. The more I chew on it the more I agree with you. The term PVPS does white wash it and make it sound like some unexplained mystery. If informed consent paperwork listed out all the known problems no man would do it. Kinda like the drug commercials where the narrator rattles off a few dozen complications worse than what the drug was treating. If only my vasectomy came with that.

Does anyone know when/where the term PVPS came into use?

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Not a problem brother. This is a discussion and your thoughts are certainly welcomed. We are all learning a little bit of something new in life all the time, and that includes me.

The Wikipedia page for pvps has changed dramatically over the years. It’s currently the best I have seen it. Given the fact that pvps is a syndrome, the page leaves some avenues open for further discussion and/or information. Notice that it was edited just days ago.

I totally agree ^^^


Check out what these people seem to think pvps is all about. Talk about lost on many levels :roll_eyes:

Yeah, I hear you, and I am certain that I wouldn’t have, but I actually think many men would still go through with it if they had a proper warning beforehand. Not getting a proper warning beforehand is a big part of what messes so many men and/or their relationships up so bad. I think that, and I have heard others suggest the same. Some men would be willing to roll the dice where as some wouldn’t. Not giving men a proper warning has its perks, but…

Yeah I meant term, now edited. Autocorrect strikes again.

The TMS link was good for a laugh. It takes a special kind of jag to speculate about other folk’s ailments and then declare that it must be all in their heads. I was all good with my vas until it started hurting a week later. Or maybe it’s some repressed emotions…

I don’t recall ever hearing when. I did a bit of research and didn’t come up with anything. I’m not sure when the PVPS terminology was coined, but I am certain it was well over a decade ago. The terminology could be decades old, IDK. Perhaps @Ethan_Scruples can dig something up.

Here’s a link to CP/CPPS - “Chronic Prostatitis”, “Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome”. I have heard of men being diagnosed with CPPS post vasectomy rather than PVPS. I have no idea when the CPPS terminology was coined either.

I think almost no one was talking about this before the internet hit. By the time Kevin Hauber got his vasectomy in 1999 the term was already in use. Back in the 70’s I’d guess you would see more “congestive epididydimis” type stuff. But mainly no discussion at all. So I’d say PVPS came into use somewhere around 1990?