Wondering if anyone has heard this expression before when speaking to a urologist whom I will most likely be booking my reversal with, he mentioned that they divide the crew master muscle during reversal because it is a pointless trait in humans now and just causes problems(I’d tend to agree), I also don’t want to misquote but I THINK he said the muscle can become thicker after a vasectomy - but I can’t find any info on this online
I’ve had my cremaster muscle divided. To be honest the less surgery you have the better. My testicle now hangs very low and feels kind of detached at times although I’m slowly getting used to it. I had mine done for hyperactive muscle though not vasectomy reversal. You can always get it divided later on but the surgery is non reversible. I’d be very careful if I were you.
So it has made a very slight difference to my pain. When I have a flare up I would say its maybe 25% less pulling upwards which does help a bit. I mentioned that I had this done to Dr P over video call and he said he actually divides the cremaster when he does denervation surgery so it isn’t as rare as it sounds. It’s also done during some hernia surgeries to get a better repair. What I’ll say though is that the less cutting and surgery you have the better. I personally regret having it done because when I’m not having a flare up it hangs so low and feels like its more likely to twist now. It’s my only testicle though so its made things a lot more unbalanced but I’m slowly getting used to it. I have been told by my new urologist he can attempt to reattach it but it is pretty pointless because as a man reaches old age the cremaster stretches and loses its effect anyway and its not worth the risk.
Hey mate , cheers for the info, I think I might have actually pm’d you on reddit as I believe we were chatting by coincidence a few nights ago lol I have a consult with a local urologist today regarding reversal also so I’m going to ask him regarding it and see if his technique and availability gives me confidence, though the surgeon I spoke to yesterday in England seemed to know his stuff and be highly experienced in the sense that he has done 7 reversals in the last week
Hey mate, yes I am hesitant too, I can see how it can cause issues with PVPS due to pulling up and down on an area where there is congestion and nerve damage but not entirely convinced it’s a cause of my pain, I have a consult with a 2nd urologist later this morning whom I’ll ask about the consequences and reasoning of it
Yeah, that’s the only reference I could find on this site about it.
Yesterday I didn’t have much of any luck finding anyone referencing litigating the cremaster muscle during a reversal for anything tho. I may look again later today, but up till last night, I’d never heard of anyone doing that during a reversal in over 11 years researching this kind of stuff.
I am curious to hear more about the rationale @Lundy, but at this point, doing this during a reversal is a huge red flag for me.
I hear you brother. I just don’t want to see you end up being the next guy that gets screwed up somehow and/or has an unexpected or a disappointing outcome, has regrets about what you were lead to believe beforehand, what you inevitably choose for yourself because of that, etc.
There is a pile of useful information on this site about reversals for pain. I can only speak for myself, but compared to the majority of people, I am very educated on the reversal topic as a whole. Obviously I still learn about something new occasionally. Whatever the case, I digress for now.
FWIW, to this day, I still regret who I choose to do my first reversal in 2010. I wish I had gone with my gut, but I listened to him/her and many cheerleaders for him/her. I really didn’t know any better back then. I am one of those people that tends to learn from my mistakes but these are not the kinds of mistakes anyone should be making. Live and learn I suppose. I should consider myself lucky, because what didn’t kill me back then made me stronger, more aware, etc.
If you cannot find answers to specific questions, don’t hesitate to ask. And good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Cheers mate, yes I’m trying to be careful picking my first and hopefully only reversal, I seen a local consultant today who was a bit ignorant to vasectomies causing issues but needless to say he had the decency to decline to reverse me because he said “you need someone who performs reversals regularly as you will not know if the surgeon was not skilled enough, or if the pain was nothing to do with the vasectomy if you still have pain after” - The urologist I am using for the operation seems to average between 2-7 reversals per week, some for fertility and some for pain - he seems to use an “advanced multilayer microsurgery” technique and uses 9-0 and 10-0 suturesand told me the process will basically be:
Remove scarred ends
Remove any scar tissue
Inspect the epididymis and vas for health, if good plumb vas - vas, if bad, plumb vas to epi
If epi is in a bad state he will report it and recommend epididectomy at a different time
Also suggested dividing the crewmaster but I have left a message to leave that part out of the procedure, basically right now I am waiting on an email to come in with the summary of what was discussed and the dates available to book later this month/september
One question for you mate with your years of getting butchered as a result of this god awful procedure, perhaps it will curb some of my anxiety about reversal - Is it entirely possible for too much of the vas to be cut out during vasectomy to make a reversal possible? My testicle is in an awfully weird position ever since the vas, I have no reason to believe an excess of my vas would have been cut out, as far as I’m aware it was a standard open-ended vasectomy under NHS protocol, just a little bit anxious, I don’t recall him pulling ropes out of me anyway lol
I suppose it is, but such stories are extremely rare or far and few in-between. I have heard of men that had truly been butchered during their vasectomy, redo vasectomy, etc, that had a positive reversal outcome.
Some guys complain about having testicles that hang higher post reversal. I am talking about guys that are well over a year or two post reversal, not guys that are more less ~early days and things still haven’t settled down yet.
In many cases, they come up with all sorts of potential explanations as to why that happened to them. IMHO, they missed some obvious stuff that could’ve caused that scenario. Whatever the case, I digress for now.
Keep in mind that I have had 2 vas to vas reversals and I don’t suffer from “my balls hang abnormally high now”. As I mentioned in another relevant thread, I too did experience a high riding irritated testicle/s post reversal, especially the first time around.
I also had more than 1 cm of vas removed during the vasectomy itself (unorthodox). Again, I didn’t know any better back then.
My educated guess is this is not related to an excessive amount of vas/s being removed during your vasectomy. Based on everything you have posted elsewhere on this site - ultrasound, imaging, scans, etc’s - my guess would be that what you are experiencing is more related to congestive issues or complications which includes congestive epididymis, sperm granuloma, scrotal adhesion/s, scarring, etc’s.
There are several testimonials on this site that read a lot like yours in regard to abnormally hanging testicle/s. Your imaging and/or scans didn’t seem to pick up on some sort of spermatocele. Unless the people that are doing these imaging/scans are completely incapable of doing their jobs correctly - a potential spermatocele, varicocele, hydrocele, etc, that would be capable of doing that is probably unlikely.
Yeah thanks for the detailed writeup mate, this is what my own suspicions have been - waiting on email to come through in the next 24 hours to get it booked - anxious as all hell after being told no by multiple urologists so far
Also, to clarify, if this has been the same and hasn’t changed at all since day 1 of the vas itself, there could be more going on here than I suggested. There are too many potential things to list. I think some common sense will go a long way here, but keep in mind that those are probably purely guesses and/or assumptions.
Also, I am sure that you are aware already, but some men have waited this stuff out for ~1-2-3-4 years and in many cases, things did more less ~completely resolve themselves over time. Just some more food for thought.
I felt the need to post this bit so nobody would accuse me of steering you into having a reversal, or anything along those lines.
I’m just here to learn something new, help others wherever I can, etc. I don’t choose anything for anyone.
Hey mate yes I’ve had 2 GPs and 1 urologist, 2 consultant urologist and 1 ultrasound all saying that there is no signs of torsion, I guess it’s entirely possible the testicle was always at a bit of a horizontal angle and the vas maybe just made it slightly worse or the epi pressure was my theory - I don’t think it’s possible for a testicle to flip medially over and urologist explained that if the issue was intermittent torsioning then the relief should come immediately after it corrects itself rather than be a persistent 24/7 throbbing tooth ache feeling in my epi/vas .
And to reply to your edit - Honestly no one can steer me off reversal at this point, I am ok to seek in to other surgeries and investigations if reversal does not provide relief, but I’d like to get as close I can to my natural state then go from there
I hear you. I just had to add that bit because over the years gone by, we have had a member or two that did accuse people like me and others of all kinds of silly nonsense.
Bottom line - I want you to do what you think is best for you and I want you and everyone else to make educated informed decisions for yourselves. Keep in mind that there is no one path for every single man. Different strokes for different folks.
I was trying to recall some related story’s for you @Lundy and this one came to mind because it’s one of countless examples of such and such since day 1 and some of his story coincides with your story (and mine for that matter). It’s a shame that this member never bothered to respond to any replies he received, nor update anyone in time.
Notice the wide variety of opinions and/or responses this gentleman received too.
It’s a shame he never came back with a resolution or update on it - I don’t think I have any of those issues fortunately, just the actual positioning of the nut seems quite off but yeah I imagine it’s entirely possible that my nut was slightly angled before and the constant pressure is pushing it down further as it does seem to be pushed in the direction of where my epi is