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Various pvp/pvps talk, questions, outcomes, procedures, etc


#1

This may be a better place for some to post rather than hijack anyone’s thread. I don’t care what gets posted here, as long as it’s relevant to post vasectomy pain.

@Jpw, You asked if I was all good after having gone through with two reversals. Well, incase you missed it, I had a third procedure as well.

Prior to my vasectomy, I had a pre existing condition. My condition was a varicocele on my left side, it resides behind my left boy. It gave me trouble (pain) several years prior to the vasectomy. It had been dormant for years prior to my vasectomy (pain wise).

I would tell anyone that my vasectomy agrivated my varicocele. It may have hypersensitized the nerves, perhaps it was the change in anatomy. I’m really not sure what happened.

Far as reversal helping me pain wise, I haven’t had certain kinds of pains since I had my first reversal. I had a redo reversal because my first one was a failure of sorts far as getting the pipes flowing.

Nobody knew what was up with me back 5+ years ago far as, is it the varicocele causing me pain, or is it inflamed epididymal tube.

My redo was a success, but a bit inconclusive far as confirming what the problem was. Best educated guess was, varicocele was the biggest problem.

I choose to have a varicocele embolization procedure after my redo reversal. I was tired of being hacked on, and being hacked on is risky. I thought I could outsmart the knife.

Bottom line is, the procedure caused back pressure in my veins down there, and I still have a varicocele. I wish I had never followed through with it as it made me a bit worse, and switch up my pains.

I do pretty well considering all. I get a lot of pain free time, but I have to be mindful far as what I put into my body.

Caffeine, nicotine, and high fructose corn syrup can be triggers far as pain. Poor eating habits, and an empty stomach can trigger more pain as well.

I was a pain after sex guy post vasectomy. My second reversal failed 24+ months after the fact. I’ve been sterile for well over 4~ years, and I still get pain after sex/ejaculation sometimes.

Hard to say what the deal is exactly, buy my best educated guesses are, I have a little bit of everything going on at times.

Bottom line, I’m way better than I was before I had my first reversal, but I still have problems that ebb and flow. Sometimes I’m alright, other times I’m not. I’m certainly not bad enough to rush into another big mistake such as my varicocele embolization procedure.

When you get made worse by such a procedure, it’s tough to go backwards. Varicocele embolization is permanent.


Sexual Side Effects
#2

So when you went for first reversal you wanted pain relief AND to be fertile again?
Idc if I’m fertile (id prefer not to be actually), just want the pain gone.

I find the opposite ironically…as soon as I start eating I have pain, which is why ive started intermittent fasting, it helps a lot for me at least.

Can you explain how one does 2 reversals?
Like, the first reversal will reconnect the tubes, so…what does the second one do?

And thanks for creating this. I wasnt trying to hijack that thread on purpose


#3

Based on a few things you said in the post above, it doesn’t sound like you know much about vasectomy reversal, or vasectomy reversal for pain. Here’s some input…

Congestive pvps is a condition where your epididymal tubes are engorged with sperm. In many cases, including studies on humans, rats, and other animals, what I’m talking about has been proven. Some men end up blowing out, leaking sperm, sperm granuloma, etc.

When men are sold vasectomy, urologists generally put a lot of lipstick, and glitter on that part. They say things like, your body will absorb all the sperm as it did before, no problem. It’s BS of sorts.

All at the same time, many studies have proven that this engorgement can cause damage to your epididymal tubes, your epididymis, and your testicles in general over time.

So, did I want to be fertile again, and get pain relief? My answer would be yes to both.

I didn’t want to be congested anymore. I didn’t want to be leaking any longer. I also wanted the electro cauterized ends of my vas’s removed, granulomas, metal clips, scarring, and so on removed. Given my sexual side effects post vasectomy, a reversal was just another hopeful plus.

Some men, and probably a lot of mens body’s absorb this sperm fairly well in time. Mine doesn’t do so great with this.

Far as how one does multiple reversals? That’s easy. This is really common in fertility. Some men have undergone as many as 2-3-4 reversals trying to get their wife pregnant.

A vas to vas redo reversal is as easy as cutting your vas’s apart again, clean things up well (scarring and such), and put them back together again with micro sutures under a powerful microscope (microsurgery).

Far as what you are saying about not wanting to be fertile again, well, you want something that’s not natural, and comes with many risks, and complications. Ultimately, you have to make “educated choices” that are best for you.

I don’t know your story, nor your timeline. Hard to say what the deal might be with you. Have you tried papaya seed, or testosterone therapy yet?

Just FYI here, congestive PVPS is not to be confused with PVP, such as nerve damage, rough surgery, etc. Many like to bundle it all together and call it all pvps. Technically, they are not the same conditions.

Hope this helps


#4

I see, still a bit confused how someone can reconnect the tubes more than once if theyre reconnected after the first reversal, but i dont really need to know the science behind it.

I haven’t tried papaya seeds. What are they for?
I think i have nerve pain, idrk. Was told granuloma right after surgery as well as hematoma, now im told nohematoma and just enlarged epi on right side due to backpressure.

1 year is coming up on the 28th. I still dont know what i want to do yet and i told myself and family id make a decision by then.
I’m 24.
I can play my drums and workout without an intense amount of pain, but as i said on the other thread after i hijacked it by accident is that oddly enough im in less pain the more i move…which is weird as hell to me.

Just a few months ago i wasnt able to sit at my drums for more than 30 mins without pain.
I’m hopeful that the pain will go away with time, but i would def not want to have the pain go away only to have something “rupture or leak” later on years from now so…thats where im at.


#5

Think of it like this, cut a garden hose in half, and glue it back together (a reversal). Now image the hose scars back closed (a failed reversal).

Cut it back apart again, remove the scarring, and glue it back together again (a second reversal).

Hope that helps with understanding the reversal part.

No need to keep apologizing for hijacking anyone’s thread. It accidentally happens in every forum I belong to. No worries brother


#6

@Jpw, You are to young to be dealing with this with no guidance imo. There are plenty of urologists out there that may very well suggest options that could make you worse.

I find it nearly unbelievable that you would have a hematoma a year after your vasectomy. Perhaps you should get a second opinion elsewhere. I do find it very believable that you have a swollen epididymis a year out of your vasectomy. Do you have any pain after sex?

You have several options if you are experiencing sperm back pressure in your epididymis. I encourage others to join in with their thoughts, but my thoughts would be a non surgical option first.

Papaya seed is a natural way to reduce your sperm production. I haven’t tried it, but others here have. I would guess it would be much cheaper than the next option which is testosterone therapy.

Testosterone therapy will do the same thing, but it is a prescription only thing, and depending on if you have insurance, it will be expensive IF your insurance even covers it. Expensive can also be as in, long term, which is not recommended.

Odd that it doesn’t bother you when you are in motion. I experience something very similar, so its not unheard of.

From there you have another non surgical option, and that is wait longer. Perhaps your body will finally adjust. Personally, I think this is unlikely, and statistics suggest the same.

From there, and just in my opinion, and given your condition, I would be thinking reversal.

There is a specific version of denervation available that MIGHT cure your pain, but not the backpressure. The back pressure will likely continue, but you MIGHT not be able to feel it after your recovery which could last for months.

Another option that I would NEVER recommend is, removal of your epididymis. I’m absolutely not game on this idea. The guy’s I know of that did it, it made them much worse.

Just FYI, all pain is nerve pain. Just based on what you are saying, it doesn’t sound like your pain is purely neuropathic in nature. You sound congested with sperm by your description. Technically, this would be considered congestive PVPS.

Taking super long HOT baths may reduce your sperm count, but I’m not thinking it will cure you. Might be worth a try.

Feel free to private message me if you ever want. I’d be more than happy to give you all call if you like.


#7

OH no, i had the hematoma directly after the vas…like, a month after. I haven’t been with a woman since December but i didnt have pain then no.
And I was surprised I didnt.

I’ll try the papaya seeds I guess as a first option. How long should I try them for to see noticeable changes?

oh yeah…i dont want the epi removed…that and getting my testicle removed are my biggest fears, last resort, absolute last resort…

I’m thinking reversal, i just don’t know if i want another surgery you know?

I’ve also had 2 ultrasounds with one hospital, an MRI with another, and then a skype call with Dr Marks who was suggested by this forum, he said reversal as well, but i felt like he was just saying that to get me off of the call.

Thank you i appreciate it :slight_smile:


#8

@Jpw, Here is a link to the papaya seed thread. If you have any specific questions, ask them.

I would also recommend a one two punch on trying to lower your sperm count even faster. I would try both the papaya seed, and long HOT baths daily to try and kill off even more sperm. That sounds logical to me.

Be on the look out for any negative side effects. Everyone’s body/system is a bit different.

Congestive pain cured with papaya seed powder!


#9

Thanks. I will try this. So, basically killing the sperm would relieve the backpressure and pain IF that’s the cause of the pain because i’ll stop producing sperm and trying to pump it through those tubes?

I hope it works.

But, I might have to do reversal if it doesn’t


#10

@Jpw, Correct. You epididymis is a holding vessel for sperm. As I recall, your sperm mature within various stages of your epididymis. You epididymis is the equivalent of a very long tiny tube/tubals. I forget how long it would be if it was fully stretched out, but its way longer than anyone would imagine.

Keep us posted on what happens/what your results/conclusion is here. You will be doing the next guy, and the world in general a big favor by doing so.

And, FYI, heat kills sperm. It is the reason I suggest the long, HOT soaks in a tub, hot tub, etc. Do it daily if you can.


#11

I’m gonna try the hot soak in a bit so hopefully that helps. In a decent amount of pain today.

And yes I will post my outcome here for all.

I just wish I knew whether or not to do a reversal…i know i can only make that choice but it seems like it might be inevitable.


#12

@Jpw, Yea, I hear you man. The hot soaks won’t be an instant cure. You have to keep doing it daily, and it will likely take some time to have any effect. Dead sperm still take up space within the epididymis, any your body will have to deal with recycling them in time.

If you do the hot soaks, and the papaya seed, theres no doubt in my mind that it should have some effect eventually. It will take some time, so don’t give up early thinking, “this isn’t working”.

Far as the reversal goes, I know of just as many failures in the 0-6 month range as I do guys that stayed open for years. My first was a failure, and my second lasted 24+months.

I know of guys that are still open that had their reversal way back 5-7+++ years ago. You never know how long a reversal will keep you open, and/or if both side will remain open.

Your reversal recovery might be rough for many many months, or it might be really quick like my second one was. I was doing very well by month 2.

Bottom line, keep on with the non surgical options for now. A reversal with Dr Marks will set you back 8-10K, has a chance to make you worse, and is a crap shoot of sorts.

The chance of making you worse is very low from what I’ve seen and know of, but it does exist. If you do decide to have a reversal, I highly recommend Dr. Marks.

Good luck


#13

I just have to find somewhere to get papaya seeds now. Maybe amazon. Not really keen on getting a bunch of papaya just for the seeds cause I’m not a huge fan of papaya fruit.

What do you mean when you say “open”? You said it multiple times.

Yes Ill try these 2 methods, but the surgery wouldn’t set me back because my insurance will cover it. That’s probably the only reason I’m considering it to be honest.

Yeah, If i decide reversal I’ll do whatever I can to get Dr Marks. I’m in NY though, but I’d strive to get him.
Thanks again.


#14

@Jpw, There is a link to papaya seed powder in the link I provided you with. It is a link to an Amazon site.

In that thread, you will see what dosages some men are trying out as well.

Hope that helps


#15

Thanks i will read that today


#16

Here’s something I thought to share with everyone. This is pictures of my repairs, and vasal fluid found at the time of my redo reversal.

I will note a few things here, first, notice that my left problematic side did not have tons of mature sperm in the sample as did my better side. No doubt I get pressure pains on my left side, top, rear, and tail of my left epididymis to this day. The picture of my left vasal fluid was pretty damning IMO, but it doesn’t set any theory in stone.

Within 2-3 weeks of my vasectomy, my left epididymis was engourged with sperm. It looked like a mass of tubes, worms, and veins through my scrotal skin. Granted things did shrink down a bit in the following months, but that was the point where I suspect I started taking some damage. Around 4~ weeks post vas is where I suspect i may have blown out. It felt like someone kicked me in the left boy when I ejaculated. I also began leaking sperm at the ends of my vas’s bilaterally around the same point in time. That cause even more problems.

I thought some of you may find these pictures interesting. You can actually see the difference in the diameter of my vas’s where they were repaired, and can tell I am missing a decent amount of vas where I was repaired as well.

If anyone else is interested in posting their pictures of their vas to vas repairs, and fluid samples taken, I would be interested in seeing them far as comparison.




#17

If you had a hematoma after surgery there is a good chance that the hematoma damaged the nerves via compression


#18

Yeah that’s a good chance. Only thing is that months kater, i was told that i didnt have a hematoma anymore…
But will a reversal fix this or just put me at risk for more complications?
Any luck with pain relief from reversal on this thread? Sorry, no time to look back at the messages. I’m at work.
I’m still in pain personally. thought I was good for a while, and I can even have sex without pain, but when I go 3 or so days without ejaculating the pain comes back. And i feel a bit of discomfort every time i pee, which is a lot, sice i drink a lot of water :persevere: still considering a reversal :confused: idk…I’m confused.

Now all these videos are coming out about the side effects of vasectomies that I smack myself for not waiting loner and having been exposed to the truth.

If only a reversal were 100% effective at relieving the pain, I’d do it in a heartbeat. But there are also complications with another surgery as I’m sure you’re all aware…


#19

You may get better without intervention. Sounds like you are a congestion guy and things have slowly improved. Did you epi ever blow up really large or is it just tender?

I had a bad bout of epididymitis and it was the most horrifyingly gross thing you can imagine. It got the size of a fucking giant magic marker. That was when I decided being sterile/closed off was the worst thing I could have done to myself. I’m a nerve pain guy btw, that just happened to get one case of epididymitis after vasectomy.


#20

Everyone on the board is different some guys the reversals worked for some they didn’t. The reversal could help epididymus pressure but it is also a mini neurolysis so some guys get better for that reason. I wouldn’t say I’ve heard of too many getting worse from reversals but I have from denervation, but as you know there is a risk with all surgeries.

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