I agree with everything you wrote. I am in a healthcare field and see first hand how the government is changing healthcare. You are also right about the greed that is pervasive throughout healthcare and how the shift is moving away from patient/providers towards regulation/cost. I am lucky that my career allows me the ability to not have to deal with the politics often, but I believe my role will change as time moves forward. I’m only 35 so I’ve hopefully still got a long career ahead of me too but who knows. I dont believe you are overreacting either. I just dont see them completely abandoning opioids until a better option is available. Too many people are dependent on them for them to just be taken away. It would be a national crisis. In some ways, it is already. You, like all of us, are in a bad situation. It at least sounds like your pain management guy is having honest discussions with you so that’s a positive. I think he’s right about finding a uro that you trust too. There are good ones out there. Good luck man.
@Kyvas thanks for discussion. I know that Oxycontin was misrepresented as non addictive (which I find hard to believe because that is exactly how heroin was marketed) and I know it is being sold on the street for amazing amounts, but doesn’t that show people that the “war” against citizens who are going to use drugs has failed? And doesn’t that also show that we need mandatory education for a first or second offense? I actually deleted alot of my post. It seems to me that peoples behavior is pretty predictable…the more taboo you make the subject…the more people and kids are going to want it. It’s human nature!
When I see what we pay per month and then I get flack from a system that isn’t doing their jobs in one area so they move to another area and create havoc it is infuriating. My pain doctor has so many restrictions, controls and now “threats” that he is beginning to wonder if it is worth it. I have one doctor (a great guy) who visably throws up his hands and says “i wrote the perscription, why are they questioning it?” And you can see he’s 1/2 counting the days to retirement and 1/2 remembering why he wanted to be a doctor to begin with. He’s almost funny if it wasn’t so sad! He is almost controlled by his assistant PA who has grown up more with the oversight but he pushes back …pretty hard…and that’s what I really like about him.
I worry about my pain doctor because my insurance pays him so little (judging by my copay) I almost feel like asking him “how much are they jipping you per month? Cause I’ll pay you some on the side.” Lol…but I’m seriously concerned. Lastly I will be glad to pay you a finders fee if you find me a Urologist that really cares and spends time like he believes (or admits he believes) in PVPS and takes my insurance!lol… Good luck. P.s. What part of the health care profession are you in…do you have PVPS or are you one of the urologists that help people on the board? Because my intention was not to offend…it was experience & jest.
I’m not offended at all. This is a solid conversation/debate. Yeah, i wouldn’t feel to bad for your pain management guy. They make really good money. I have PVPS. I’m 7 months post vas and I’ve been in pain since day 1. I’m definitely not a urologist because I’m sure if i was, i wouldn’t have had the vasectomy. Ha. Luckily because of my job, I’ve been able to find some good docs/NPs that not only admit the pain is real, but have also been able to help me out. My current uro is a good guy and has been open and honest with me. Although he’s almost been too honest because he believes it may be something i have to live with because no surgical option is without risk. It’s depressing that i may have to live the rest of my life with this. I guess I’m lucky though because my pain isn’t so bad as to warrant narcotics and also because i couldn’t work if i had to take them. Elavil and Gabapentin have worked really well for me, but i have recently weaned off gabapentin and I’ve had no uptick in pain which is fantastic.
@IamHurtin I was looking back at some of your posts and noticed you were in Sacramento. Is there a division of the UC system there. It would seem that a urology group based within the university system would at least admit that PVPS is real and be willing to work with you. I’m in Louisville, KY and the University of Louisvilles urology division website talks about PVPS and what can be done for it. Just a thought man.
Hello @Kyvas … are you talking about the University of California, Berkley? I am a transplant and there are so many colleges here. But yesterday I did a search of my PPO approved doctors!? And none were from Colleges? We are really unhappy with our Blue Sheild PPO because it is acting more like a HMO than a PPO. I could go to L.A. or S.F. and possibly get a teaching college, yet here, all the Urological Surgeons are attached to one of the big hospitals. One guy I’ve already been to (who was listed in Best Doctors ) and he said that I just had to learn to live with it and that I should go back to the Dr. that did my “incorrect” reversal (as I’ve learned on these boards)., to which I said “thanks a lot (Best Doc?)” and left! The insainity of it all is what bugs me the most. If i would ask one hundred men “where would it hurt most if i kicked you right now?” I’m pretty confident I could get in the 80 to 90percentile region that testacles would be in part of their answer…BUT! All of the Urologists that I have tried to discuss this problem with, act like I’m a wimp or something is wrong with my head… I know that they are not tellimg the truth…but they seem so aloof so distracted (like they are hiding something) I can’t seem to find anyone I can trust!
I actually read on one board where this one guy who had done a rather large survey, said that he was pretty sure it was a certain body type, with a certain amount of hair and a certain sex drive that come down with PVPS…I think his study is as valid as the urologists that i’ve spoken too. I’ll send this now because I always type too much. Thanks for the discussion.
I hope my question is clear…
My question is this, was the procedure correctly done, but your outcome was bad?
Or did the doctor perform the surgery incorrectly resulting in the bad outcome?
#1 is an “acceptable” risk, #2 is due to an incompetent surgeon which is not acceptable.
I don’t know if you could answer this, but what went wrong? Did he use a sonogram to guide procedure? In other words did he do too much cutting in the area to cause the damage?
What is used to do cutting? A laser? Or a surgical knife?
@SirPaulMuaddib…i wish i knew if the operation was done correctly. My surgeon never checked if there were sperm present after the operation. He didn’t even ask me if i wanted it done. And he took “no” pictures of the proceedure. He seemed like he was tired out from working too hard (it was a 4+ hour surgery). When I called him for the 3rd time weeks later after surgery (to let him know that i wasn’t doing very well) he told me that he had another guy that had the same surgery and he was fine. He also said that perhaps I am just overly sensitive…so no, i doubt wether the surgery was done correctly. He seems like he skipped a lot that other doctors do… And he made me worse off than i was before i went in for the reversal and he insulted my self esteeme by infering that i was a chronic complainer. Does this answer your question? Oh yea and He used a knife and he had bragged that his microscope was soo good that he didn’t need anything else! This was earlier when i had asked him if he used a daVinci system or not.
I’m 29 and have a slightly different reasons for why I ended up here than most of you, but I’ve been recommended by a urologist to undergo microsurgical denervation of the spermatic cord to resolve the chronic pain I’ve experience since my varicocelectomy in Dec 2015. Like many of you, I’ve had a urologist give me the song and dance of the benefits of this surgery (the 2012 study, 73% with no pain post op, etc.) and how the success rate has been improving over the past few years. He told me about Dr. Laurence Levine in a Chicago, how he (allegedly? I can’t find any info online) developed the latest surgery, and printed out a few websources I could read for more information and recommended I get the surgery under a more skilled surgeon. At least he was honest with me about that aspect. I’ve been doing research and putting of scheduling this surgery as I’m terrified of making things worse and ending up with chronic pain for life, as my current pain has drastically altered what I can do day-to-day. I can’t find anyone online that has had success with this surgery and instead I’ve found this forum, which has been enlightening as well as depressing.
It is my thought to get the surgery done in a Chicago with Dr. Laurence Levine, as the guy who has the most experience the surgery should be the best—right? I don’t know as I can’t find any solid reviews from people that underwent the micro denervation surgery with him. Has anyone here had any experience with him? I’m also interested in getting some of the doctors name that that I should avoid, such as Dr. P (Parekattil?).
I’ve become desperate for relief lately as I’ve had to severely alter my life and what I am able to do with friends who “understand” what I’m going through and occasionally recommend activities to do that’s I cannot participate in, or forget that 4 flights of stairs isn’t a quick endeavor for me. I try not to let it affect me, but it does. I’m trying to also not let my desperation influence me to make rash decisions and undergo the knife/laser without fully understanding what could happen as a result.
Any information or experience that anyone on this forum (or beyond) would like to share with me I would be so greatful!!! Thank you!
Very tough call. Like you, I’ve had 3 urologists I respect suggest SCD. Theads like this and the general negativity on this forum toward SCD has caused me to try a WIDE array of treatments over the past 27 months. I havent found a single SCD cheerleader outside someone who gets paid to do it or makes referrals.
At the same time, we have to recognize forums like this have a built-in negative bias. Men with scrotal pain, whether from vasectomy or not, generally don’t talk about it much. Then, if the do get resolution from SCD or other treatment, they tend to move on with their lives. I used to participate on back pain forums, had corrective surgery, and left those forums.
That’s the vexing part about medicine. You can’t demand references from a service provider due to HIPAA. And, for all we know, there are dozens or hundreds of men with scrotal content pain resolved by SCD who never came here. Seems improbable but possible.
I have read a lot of good things about Levine but have not seen any or few posts about him on this forum. If you do a google search of his name you can find some of his research papers. Seems like when he does denervation for vasectomy patients he also cleans up cut vas sites and does a redo vasectomy. There is not a easy fix for nerve damage which is hard to accept. On this site it seems denervation does not have the outcomes we would like to see but wonder where the high success rates drs quote come from. If you can identify the nerve or nerves causing the issue through nerve blocks you could consider pulse radio frequency no ablation which is less destructive and minimally invasive procedure but the nerve will grow back. It’s a temporary fix but does not hurt the nerve. You could also look at neurectomy but not to much info on this site. A few folks have had this done recently but not much feedback yet. Check out the Dellon institute website for info on that. Everything to try to stop pain messages from nerve damage has risks.
I just read a little bio on him as well. Seems like a good one. I like the idea that he does cleanup as part of his procedures. I’ve always believed that the reason reversals work is because of the cleanup/reconstruction component. Patency is probably not that important, in fact, I would imagine reconstruction alone is less disruptive than trying to join two ends of the vas that is already damaged and shortened. I think I would have benefitted even more from removal of scar tissue alone without any attempt to rejoin my vas deferens. Things probably would have looked and felt more normal.
It only affects my left side.
Im in simular situation to youself as mine is left sided only…i am only considering a removal as next step…after reading the stories of permenent nerve damage from denervation on here no way would I risk denervation. If it was both sided then i can see why some might op for denervation but one sided for me i would def favour removal
Jesse (sdhc81, 21tomlinson) hasn’t posted for a while. He kept talking about suicide, so I hope he’s okay (or at least as okay as he can be).
Was thinking same thing other day…
Well, he said he was suing his doctor so maybe that will give him a reason to hang around. I would have a full orchiectomy before giving up on life entirely.
As their nerves were already stripped i think damage to them would mean full orchimectomy wouldnt even make a difference painwise. Honestly crazy that if they would have chosen removal instead that they could have been living a full life…really is a roll of the dice.
This is what I don’t understand. Where is the incision for inguinal orci? Where is the incision for denervation/skeletonization? Seems to me like an inguinal orci is probably like denervation except with denervation you leave just the structures to support the cord and testicle below the line of dissection. With an orci you cut and pull the downstream cord and testicle out through the incision. Is one performed higher up than the other? It would be great if someone explained this to us.