Researching for my husband (I'm the wife) :)


Is the nerve scrambler that you are referring to also known as shockwave therapy?


The supportive underwear trick is not for everyone. To much support causes even more problems here. I know many Uro’s recommend the supportive underwear, but it’s not for everyone. I learned this the hard way. I am very underwear specific. To much support causes rubbing, which equals pain. I am better off in boxers than wearing tight underwear, or a jock. I don’t wear boxers, nor tight underwear. I used to be a boxer guy before the vasectomy.

Sounds like you have been through hell. I’m sorry to hear this.


Just beware-Dad’s Again (Dr. Marks) is where my husband’s pain began…


+1 on @Choohooo’s post. If it weren’t for the love and support from my wife and family I would have done myself in by now.

They’re honestly the only reason I’m committed to fighting this pvps crap and keep on seeking treatment.

I can’t imagine going through this without the support I have at home.


Did your husband get Vasovasotomies (VV) or Vasoepididimostomies(VE)?


The latter-at Dad’s Again with Dr Marks in Arizona. Worst thing we ever did.


@sswift, I am very sorry to hear your story. I am curious to know if you “reversal for fertility” clients were warned about PvP/s as a possible outcome.

Having been to ICVR myself, I was a “reversal for pain” client. It’s been several years since I was there, but the paperwork, and warning I received, and signed with a witness present was very clear. It was the most clearly defining paperwork I have seen in all my days, Uro’s, doctor visits, etc, etc.

When I read, and signed that paperwork, there was no doubt in my mind, and it was very clear that I was taking a significant risk far as my outcome making me worse.


Unfortunately a lot of that type of disclosure is typical for surgical procedures. I also signed a paper while getting my vas that there was a risk of death even!

I don’t disagree about the pain risk. Unfortunately VE is a much more complex procedure so that pain risk is higher than VV.

I have mine next week with Dr P, but he gives his pain patients VV’s no matter what, and I am only 14 months out of vas.


My first thoughs are, I’m sure there at those out there that would say dying right on the spot during the procedure may be better than a lifetime with PvP. They sucker you in with “death”, as a possible outcome, as that’s about anything. Driving, eating, etc, etc. I believe the majority of people look right over the “death” part, that’s a risk we all take daily.

Now, if not warned, and properly counseled about PvP/s, you probably had no idea it even existed before you agree to electively have it done to yourself.

How many guys knew anything about sperm granuloma, de-nervation, removal, top pvps doctors, etc etc, prior to their vasectomy consultation, and paperwork? My educated guess is, very, very few, like an extremely low %.

I actually know a guy that sued for PvP/s and lost his case based on exactly what you said about “death” as an outcome from the anisthetic used during the procedure. He lost, because he assumed the risk of death as an outcome.

Who know this stuff?

I wish you the best with your reversal. Good luck!


I’m not so sure about the last part of this either. I know of guys that had de-nervation under a microscope, and the top tier microsurgon could not find the end of his geni/ilionigual nerve endings.

If they knew exactly where the endings were prior to the procedure, etc, etc, I believe a lot of men would be spared.

I tend to believe that “some of us” are freaks of nature, and our anatomy may be off somehow.


You don’t need to “tend to believe” anything. Anatomic variations in neuro anatomy happen all the time. I give 15-20 nerve blocks a day and I’d say 10-15% are different than the majority of people. It’s a fact of life.

The scrotum is one of the most densely innervated areas in the body. Magically urology gives themselves a pass on nerve damage and consider PVPS the cost of doing business. It really isn’t right. I dont know how you can commit yourself to nonmaleficence when there are chronic pain statistics as high as there are.


I think it’s slightly different, but I don’t know exactly how. Here’s the link for the Scrambler technology -

I googled shockwave therapy and it sounds slightly different…I think? :slight_smile:


They also give themselves a pass far as destroying relationships, and a whole slew of uninvited problems into men, and their families lives. Many end up divorced over it, and that includes the non-pvp/s guy’s. I find that those that get the angriest, are those that were railroaded into it by their wife’s, and the half truths of their urologists at the same time. Of course if the wife, and family is unsupportive, it’s even worse. Yep, yep on the free passes.


We really do need to create a registry here of providers that have had bad outcomes.


Mike, in regards to one of your posts in another thread about creating a registry, I think you are spot on.

If we could turn this into, or create a PVPS “foundation” with non-profit/charitable status, we could definitely start spreading the word and have some clout, instead of being seen as a ‘fringe’ website or men ‘suffering from pain in their heads’ or what’s that thing that Dr. Turek said ‘male disfigurement syndrome’ WTF!?

Keep in mind that the pudendalhope site is actually a registered charity. We could do that too.

If we created a registry of members who have suffered pain, with the name of the uro/dr who performed the vas, along with the PVPS numbers they were quoted pre-vas, then, as you mentioned previously, send a letter to said uro/dr with the AUA or CUA guidelines (CUA guidelines are 1-14% chance of chronic pain FYI) alerting them that they are violating the CUA/AUA guidelines (based on location) and that they have a PVPS patient who has registered with the PVPS foundation, along with a little tidbit about how the PVPS foundation is keeping a database of PVPS sufferers, along with urologists who are not in compliance with CUA/AUA guidelines, I think we may start rattling some vasectomists.

Then, imagine if uro’s who got a bunch of these letters started thinking, oh crap, maybe I’d better stick to the AUA/CUA guidelines and actually inform patients! We’d probably start making a difference.

Sure, it won’t fix us guys who are already broken, but we can possibly prevent further harm.

Think about it, if you were actually told that there was a 1-2% chance of severe chronic pain negatively affecting your quality of life (AUA) or a 1-14% chance of chronic scrotal pain (CUA), I think only 50% of guys would go through with it.

I know that if my vasectomist, Dr. Ronald Weiss in Ottawa had told me there was a 1-2% chance of severe pain (or 1 in 50 chance) instead of the 1 in 10,000 chance of a chronic ache in the testicle, for which a reversal is required, I would have said thanks but no thanks, see you later and I would not be here today. But here I am.

Rant over.


The guy who did my husband’s retired about a month after the vasectomy. My
husband teaches Excel and Quickbooks classes, and ran into the now-retired
doctor at one oft is classes. He mentioned the awful time he’s had, and
the doctor basically shrugged it off. I need to ask my husband, but I want
to say that this doc seemed to think it occured about 1/1000. He’s about
the only urologist in our rural town and has probably done hundreds if not
thousands of them. At any rate, I seem to remember him quoting a higher
rate of incidents.


For the record, the urologist who retired was a strange doc. Brushed off
hubby’s claim that he could still feel a lot, didn’t attempt to rectify
anything when hubby about jumped off the table from pain. He drove a car
that had “peepeedoc” for the license plate. Yeah.


Yea, idk about a registry anywhere. If a true registry was ever created, it would be as much as a whistle blower. I am 100% sure that many people’s hero’s, and saviour’s would end up on that list, and they would likely never allow that to happen.

Do a google search on what the average annual salary of a urologist is. Read some more, and you will come to the realization that they make to much money. Their huge salarys, combined with bonusus from cash cow procedures such as vasectomy, they are near the top far as top paid medical practitioners.

I remember an assenine rant/comment I received anonymously at my website years ago, I was told to start a trust, set aside my own money for vasectomy research. What a joke. These people have the money to set aside to do this themselves, or as a combined effort.

I’m sure it’s better to have heavy bank accounts, multiple homes, beach front condos, huge ranches, expensive cars, and possessions, etc, etc.


It was interesting to read some of the posts here as i’m new here.

Had a hernia surgery which i knew straight away something went wrong from that surgery. Knew something was wrong when i woke up as well.

Pain grew and grew from there. Then i visited Dr P in 2013 for denervation of the cord cos pain at that time was so severe. After that surgery , pain was reduced from 90% to 25% which was a godsend.

Dr P said that he found lots of scar tissue but the problem was that blood drip started to get bigger and bigger over time. It was fine before denervation as it remained the same re blood drip (little).

I was quite concerned about increasing blood leaks. i suspected mesh hernia from previous hernia surgery went wrong. Spoke to ex hernia mesh guy in the states, who thought it might be mesh as well. After long while re long search for surgeon who specialises in mesh removal and found him. Two years ago, he found a lot of permanent sutures made of polyproplene materials inside groin. It was a double hernia repair this time without mesh as it was a success. Friends said i looked much better.

A massive improvement in my health as cloud lifted from my shoulders. Blood levels returned to normal and no more late night trips to the loo which was uncomfortable waking up in the middle of night. Then blood leaks returned again many months later leaving me more at wits end- when will it end re pain?

The problem with expert medical opinion which can be contradictory or odd at times, for example Dr P say it’s the nerves or my surgeon say it’s the mesh with ingrowth scar tissue. How do we know which one is correct?

Decided to go for an MRI scan much stronger in terms of 3T (cos 1.5 couldn’t detect it further) as they found abnormality of the vas deferens. Discussed it with hernia mesh surgeon re possible blood leaks with vas Def as i had a small surgery few months ago. He clipped off some sections of the vas with 2.5x magnification. It took time to heal still healing now as i noticed blood leaks stopped then and now no sign of it. Pain was reduced by much

Now pain came back in different shape as it was lot of discomfort inside left groin upwards like a line and urine stinked smell (which i didn’t know that re frequent trips at night to loo for 3 years without noticing it. (despite me telling my ex gp and fired him after that).

Decided to go for more tests and they found variocele and UTI-urinary tract infection (to my surprise cos i didn’t know that for three years re frequent trips to loo with stinked smell). But Cleveland clinic didn’t issue me any anti biotics medication, which was very strange despite confirmation of UTI.

Then i spoke with Dr P again since 2013 as we agreed to do varioceletomy micro surgery couple of months later this year.

My question, will it reduce the pain?? Will it improve my health? Will it eliminate the UTI completely??

My previous concern with Dr P was blood leaks had increased after dernevation micro surgery back in 2013. He denied it was the cause of it cos ex hernia mesh guy said it to me re blood leaks connection with denervation surgery. Hence my switch to hernia mesh surgeon which was the correct decision which paid off cos of massive improvement in health as most of the pain went except for left groin pain remaining which is the variocele and the UTI as well.

Also i’m quite concerned when you said 12 times with Dr P which leaves me wondering…

For me now,Pain like a needle in a spot with no surrounding pain except for discomfort which relates to variocele/cyst in upper left groin goes up like a line.

One thing that struck a cord with me when you said ‘result of a stitch through a nerve’ cos i felt like a rope tightened up down there or tied tightly cos also lot of polyproplene material - a lot of permanent stitches removed in previous hernia surgery.

How can they determine that re stitch through the nerve??? is it possible to find out?

One problem i have with Dr P was that:

How can he and some other specialists say that it is the nerves without any medical evidence such as scans or medical tests so on to prove it?

Vas defens some parts were squashed after the dernevation robotic surgery with a biowrap to protect it which implies that dernevation procedure didn’t protect the vas or didn’t work despite huge reduction in pain.That said, it also left me wondering.

Love to hear from you and any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.


@Irishguy1, in an attempt to be helpful to you here, just FYI, if you address a member of this forum in the @ manner as I did you, I believe they will receive an email notification regarding your post. If you don’t address a member that way, the only way they will know you are looking for a possible reply is if they read your post here on the forum.

You can easily edit your post, and re-address the issue.

Hope that helps.