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PVPS- who screwed up and what did they do wrong?


#21

Just wandering did Dr Marks and P get on this forum themselves? Or did some of you long time guys recommend it to them? Maybe @victor?


#22

Both used to be on the older Yahoo forum.

When I launched this site, they just opened accounts here.


#23

Thanks Vic. Its a shame they dont seem to post anymore. Maybe they would have some new thoughts on everything as this forum grows.


#24

Vaselgel and RISUG but urologist don’t seem to care to look for better (less destructive and reversible) solutions


#25

Isn’t the pinching, burning and pulling sensation that many feel related to scarring?

I’ve seen a lot of videos about scar adhesion, and because our body doesn’t differentiate the skin layers upon healing, some of them may glue together, causing nerve entrapment or pulling muscles. In the groin area, we have many small nerves and at least two muscle layers.

If that’s the case, we should be advised that by tearing different layers of skin, with or without a scalpel, the scar that will form after the surgery is a great pain factor.

It happens if you have a knee or foot surgery, which are areas full of ligaments and nerves. Isn’t it a major possibility for vasectomies as well?


#26

What is needed is an understanding that vasectomy is genital mutilation and therefore inherently bad for you. Just as the lungs were never meant to habitually inhale tobacco smoke, the vas deferens was never meant to be permanently blocked. And though most vasectomized men do not get PVPS, most smokers do not get lung cancer either.

I am sure a similar argument can be made about cigarette smoke and lung cancer. It’s not that there is anything wrong or unhealthy per say with cigarette smoke. it’s just that there must have been some “pre-existing abnormality” or pre-existing oncological condition in their lungs which then interacted with the tobacco smoke which eventually led to the development of lung cancer.

Bullshit!!

Just as cigarettes come with warnings mandated by federal law, so too must vasectomies come with warnings mandated by federal law.


#27

Yes, informed consent. It always seems to come back to that on this board. There are some providers that do this already. We had one provider come on here this past year, I don’t recall the details, but his website had the AUA guideline numbers on it. It’s hard to take issue with a provider that is up front about the risk. Why did he come on here? I’m not sure. I asked him if he had a bad outcome and don’t think I ever got a reply. I think the only thing that will force such disclosure is fear of legal action. Once a provider knows he has had a documented bad outcome and is made aware of the current guidelines it gets harder for them the next time to justify arbitrary numbers like 1 in 1000. I have said in the past we need to “help” them to have incentive. Right now it’s easier for them to compartmentalize guys with issues as outliers and continue with business as usual. The alternative is loss of revenue and being at an unfair competitive advantage with providers that will say nothing or anything to put guys at ease (to sell their services). I also truly believe most providers are unaware of the scope of the problem. I have gone to some urologists that I really respect that simply don’t believe vasectomy can cause such problems for men and one that was surprised a reversal helped me.

I don’t think it’s a conspiracy, more like a dysfunctional dynamic.

Just by documenting your problems here you are helping to fix the problem.


#28

Yea, and they also downplay the risks of pvps as well, just as the AUA’s website does. They also downplay what pvps will be like, the symptoms, the severity, etc.

Somehow they don’t get all excited about warnings, and the similarities between the possible severity of sperm granuloma, and congestion being severely painful as is pvp/s for some men.

From my point of view, if men don’t get a good slap to the face warning regarding the possibility of pain, pvp, pvps, possible side effects, possible recovery timelines, long term, short term, etc, it wasn’t good enough.

You are totally free to believe there is no conspiracy, and people like myself are totally free to believe otherwise.

Honestly, I’m not sure if there’s a big difference in-between a severely dysfunctional dynamic regarding informed consent, verbal consultations, full disclosure warnings beforehand, etc, and others referring to what’s going on as something conspiracy about it all, especially when we tack on the pros and cons regarding why unsuspecting people still aren’t getting proper informed consent. This stuff has been going on for decades.


#29

@crotalus97, this is an old thread, and it literally goes back to the beginning’s of this site. I can remember the day/s the posts above were made like yesterday.

There are two urologists in this thread that both claim to not know so much about what causes pvp/s, yet bring up many interesting points.

I see some stuff above that I definitely agree with, but so much stuff is missing that could’ve been brought up, and/or said. Personally, I think there are endless ways to end up with pain, and/or chronic pain post vas (pvp/pvps). Some stuff gets listed in risks sections by urologists, the AUA, CUA, NHS, etc, but some very critical stuff is missing including human error (surgical error), etc.

We definitely have way to many men, or woman on this site and elsewhere that claim the only thing they were told beforehand was vasectomy was a “low risk procedure”, which is beyond misleading, and very unethical.

There’s by far more possibilities listed on this site, including by myself, and guys that even experienced some of these things themselves that you will not see listed on anyone’s website, and/or informed consent paperwork.

Other possibilities, spermatocele, sectioning a vein instead of the vas, massive infection, insane crazy nerve damage, I could go on.

There are stories on this site, and/or elsewhere regarding testicular failure, atrophy, testicular death, people that claim vasectomy destroyed their testical/s to the point where unilateral, or bilateral orchiectomy was their only way out, massive scarring, massive scarring in places that shouldn’t be scared, the vas adhering to the scrotal wall, I could go on…


#30

@crotalus97, I can’t help but point out that my story actually falls into points made by both urologists that posted in this thread years ago.

My vasectomist was sitting on my left, did my right before I knew it, moved onto my left and seemed to be having problems. I could feel tugging, and pulling sensations. He stopped, called a nurse via intercom, but she never came. He began working on my left side again, and like before, tugging, and pulling sensations. “Almost done”, “just another suture or something” he said, as I’d had about enough.

I also had a pre-existing varicocele pain problem on my left side that had been symptomatically dormant for several years prior to my vasectomy.

Tack on bilateral sperm granuloma, and perhaps a couple other things, and I was a recipe for disaster.

Of course, my left side is my bad side. My right side has handled all this way better.

I’m not thinking every man has a story like mine, but it’s probably somewhat common.


#31

Actually, I’ve done a bit of homework in regard to the word/s conspericy, conspiracy theory, etc. This stuff keeps coming up on here far as is it a conspericy? Perhaps another word? A severely dysfunctional system dynamic?

What’s happening to men in regard to not getting proper informed consent is actually considered a “conspericy”. Read the definitions below.

Conspiracy (civil), an agreement between people to deceive, mislead, or defraud others of their legal rights or to gain an unfair advantage.

Conspiracy (criminal), an agreement between people to break the law in the future, in some cases having committed an act to further that agreement.

Conspiracy (political), an agreement between people with the goal of gaining political power or meeting a political objective.

Hub-and-spoke conspiracy, a conspiracy in which one or more principal conspirators (the “hub”) enter into several similar agreements with others (the “spokes”) who know concerted action is contemplated, usually where the success of the concerted action depends on the participation of the other spokes.


#32

I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if someone went into many of these “top doc’s” practices with hidden cameras, and microphones and inquired about getting a vasectomy.

I’m seriously curious to know what kind of warnings would be given in their written, and verbal consultations regarding vasectomy imperticularly. Would it be much different than at Dr Jon, or Jane Doe’s office?

Some of these people, or perhaps the majority of them also offer corrective procedures, and in their cases, I would think places like that would definitely give proper informed consent considering how many men with pvp/s they see annually, but the truth may be surprising. Idk


#33

I know from my experience they will continue to lie. I had a friend go to the guy who butchered me. The Uro told him he’s never had a single person with a problem after a vasectomy. Yet this friend knows an ER doc at the hospital where the Uro practices who is still in pain. And of course myself.


#34

We need to find a way to call out these liars and report them the AUA, AMA, medical board, or ambulance chasers. If nothing else, put a bunch of posts on Yelp, etc.


#35

I had thought about this, but I don’t want to bother any of my friends to do it.

I feel like something DID go wrong in my surgery. The doctor didn’t come into the room until almost an hour after I was prepped and he seemed to be in a hell of a hurry to get out of there (it was the end of the day, and I think he was behind.). He was also completely alone… no assistant or anything, so he could have completely screwed up and nobody would have been able to say anything.

He shot me with the lidocane, then IMMEDIATELY went to work on the left side. He didn’t step away for a bit to let it kick in, and he didn’t check to see if it was numb (“do you feel that?”… like the dentist usually does.)… just straight to cutting after the needle came out.

I almost flew out of the chair it hurt so bad. I was groaning, sweating, and I almost vomited. It felt like he was crushing my testicle with pliers. I told him that it hurt REALLY bad and he just shrugged it off and said “you’re doing great.”

I nearly passed out from the pain on the left side. Then he went onto the right side and it was nothing… no pain, just as I had expected the WHOLE procedure to be.

Not surprisingly, the right side was fine within a week, and the left side STILL hurts over 6 weeks later.


#36

I have a bit of craziness in my vasectomy day story as well beyond what I mentioned above. I’m not sure what happened, if anything, idk. My pre op paperwork actually says in writing that I may feel pulling, and tugging sensations during the procedure.

At one point while this guy was doing my bad side and seemingly having trouble, he asked me if I felt something at some point, which I didn’t.

Seems my pre op shots made me nearly come off the table. I was an end of a friday afternoon procedure myself, but he did wait till I was numb. Seems I had at least two rounds of shots before he began, but it seems I had to get a bit more on my left to finish the job.

As I recall, I was in a precarious situation. My penis had a piece of stretchy rubber hose tied to it, with the other end attached to my shirt. Him trying to call a nurse into the ordeal made me uncomfortable. I commented on it, and he said, “she so smart, and has seen this so many times, she could do this herself”.

Given my redo reversal surgeon stated that my inner lumens were “wispy”, I don’t understand how vasectomist’s manage to do vasectomys properly on guys like myself without a loupe, or microscope.

I didn’t leave the office in sheer agony either. I felt bad, not good, but not in serious pain. My complications began probably around 10 days post op, and got worse, and worse. I was obviously very congested by week 3-4, and things went crazy during sex, and off the charts when I got mine around week 4~. I believe this is when I blew out, or leaked sperm at the end of my left vas.

Things got progressively worse, and by week 8-10, I had a sperm granuloma on my right side as well.


#37

After reading this thread, I wonder if there are signs of who might be disposed to PVPS. I’ve spoken to several men since my vas and subsequent pain for the past year. This will sound weird but I used to really enjoy when my wife handled the boys and I was surprised to find out other men usually wanted them left alone. This has led to me to wonder if I’m wired a little different down there since they’ve always been sensitive in a good, arousing way. Since the surgery I don’t want them touched so much and my wife and I feel like we’ve lost a form of connection but maybe that was a sign they had a lot of nerves and wouldn’t take kindly to modification.

Thoughts?


#38

I never cared for my wife handling my nuts. Shaft yes, balls now. She never has done much of either the first place because she is self conscious about her dry hands ( a genetic condition inherited from her mother, or so she says ). Women don’t know anything about that part of a man’s body (balls) in general and often find them useless aesthetically displeasing worthless appendages on men. What’s funny is I’m the self conscious one about that part of my body now whereas I never was before.

Women understand that it hurts to be hit there only in the abstract because they don’t have balls. It works both ways.

I bet for a large portion of women out there balls do nothing for them sexually except put them at risk of getting pregnant. Once the kids are done they are less than worthless and in fact a threat in the form of more pregnancies or more pregnancies with someone else (competition). The dynamic is messed up.


#39

We’ve always been pretty hands on, so I guess I’m lucky. I’ve woken up in the middle of the night with her fast asleep and holding my boys. My philosophy is that we often don’t enjoy our partners to the fullest because society gives us all kinds of hang-ups about what is gross, embarrassing or dirty but with enough communication, you can enjoy learning and being what your partner wants. I know it sounds corny though. :stuck_out_tongue: