There was a study done on rabbits, did not prove to be that effective, you can Google it
I’ve been doing surprisingly well lately. I only have 2-3 pain episodes per week now and they’re generally mild. I still feel tender down there if I probe around, but it doesn’t affect most of my daily activities. I’m still leaning toward reversal since I know things can go south at any point, but it isn’t so urgent now.
Also, I stopped taking the papaya seed powder a couple weeks ago (I forgot to bring it with me, and kinda got out of the habit) and haven’t noticed any real difference in how I feel.
It’s quite possible that your symptoms are slowly improving and eventually you will be OK. I remember coming across a btl poster in the Guardian who’s symptoms spontaneously improved after 30 months.
Looking back over the past 2 years and 9 months since my own vas - it now seems obvious that I was improving incrementally, but I became episodically disconcerted because of the non-linear nature of my recovery.
It seems strange that you would be still leaning towards a $10,000 operation with a 50 / 50 chance of success, the probable return of fertility and the possibility of making your symptoms worse when you’re seeing evidence of improvement.
Well, it’s because of the things I know now that I didn’t know then. Some men will accumulate blowouts, nerve damage and epididymis blockage over time. This can lead to a return of crippling pain 10 or more years out from the vasectomy. At that point, my only options might be risky nerve surgeries or orchiectomy. I guess I just want to stop the damage I’ve done to myself and see if I can feel normal again.
OK. My approach in life is to deal with situations as they occur. I would never willingly have surgery in that area again - especially on the very remote chance that something may happen in the distant future. I mean, what’s the medical basis behind your fear that nerve damage may ‘accumulate’ in the future? What process could possibly lead to that occurring? Surely if it were to occur it would happen immediately after a botched surgery e.g. during a reversal.
But anyway, each to his own. I still place my faith in the medical community.
@Bry, don’t let this irishguy continue to troll on you, or anyone else for that matter. While he does make some good points on occasion, and above, let’s remember that he was temporarily banned from this site not to long ago for disrespectful behavior. Disrespectful behavior as in paragraphs that are wrote in capital letters, screaming, hollering, and flapping his arms at members on this site including at the creator/owner of this site.
If you ask me, his current agenda is to bring discredit to this site, and many of the senior members of it, the pvps doctors, studies, etc that get mentioned on this site regularly, etc.
I do feel pretty confident this guy is a professional in the field of psychology, but his mannerism is far from professional.
Personally, I would’ve banned him for good
A quick search on this site will turn up many stories of people who had complications some time after the vasectomy. Every reversal surgeon will tell you that the chances of a successful reversal go down with time due to the damage caused by the pressure within the epididymis. Personally, I know I’m much more fragile than I used to be. I climbed over a railing a few weeks ago and without thinking dragged my crotch across the bar. I set myself back with a burning ache for 2 days. I just don’t feel it’s a safe state to be in.
No problem Bry -
Everyone has to make their own decisions. I’m obviously anti-surgery, unless absolutely necessary. I hope whatever you plan on doing works out for you.
@Bry I would have to agree with @irishguy. I would be hesitant to have any surgery in hopes of preventing future complications. There are some legitimate surgeries to decrease future risk but I’m not sure a reversal would fall under that scope. I think there’s more risk than reward.
There is a member on here who recently had a one sided reversal. His surgeon argued not to touch the side that was pain free basically saying why take the chance on irritating it. He agreed and only had his bad side fixed. However, this is just my opinion and everyones got to do what they feel is right for them.
Don’t let what you read on this forum frighten you into action. All of these accounts can lead you down a very dark pit of despair. I’ve been in that pit and it’s awful. In reality, if you end up mostly pain free, do your best to walk away and not worry about the vasectomy anymore. Consider yourself lucky and move on. Good luck either way. It’s a very difficult place to be but it sounds like things are improving for you and I hope that continues.
I understand and I’m somewhat on the fence myself. I could end up regretting anything I do but I’m still going to talk to a few doctors.
I find it interesting at best than guys that have never even had a reversal start in on guys that are interested in having one. Who are these people? Like you are supposed to do what they would do, like they know best about everything, yet have done nothing themselves.
Bry, if you do decide to move forward with a reversal, just don’t be the next guy to get on here and say, hey, wtf, it’s been a couple days, or weeks and it didn’t work. I can’t believe I’m still seeing this on here. Who’s paying attention? Who’s reading all the relevant reversal threads? Who’s doing all their homework first?
I know I’ve repeatedly told people over, and over, and over what to expect. Their reversal surgeons did to, and they still come on here way to soon with all that crap. Generally speaking, reversals are no walk in the park. Recovery’s tend to take “at least” 6-12+ months. Some may be quicker, some may take longer, and fully recovered to the point where you don’t think about any of it may take even longer than that.
Obviously the risk of ending up worse off is a possibility, but from what I’ve seen, it’s not typical. Worse off for the first 3-6-9-12+~ months? Probably.
@Bry, I thought I’d add that I too consider your MO’s for considering a reversal to be a bit concerning. Given the fact that I’ve had two of them fail, and your banking on long term patency for this, that, and the other reasons, your thinking, and judgment regarding reversal seems off to me.
I’m sure there’s people out there that will be like, who’s this ringostar guy plodding around like everyone’s reversal will fail sooner than later.
And I say, I’ll be here to say I told you so if it happens to you.
@Bry, also, who’s to say you already haven’t developed a blockage on one side, or both already? Who’s to say you haven’t already taken damage of some sort within your epididymal tubes already?
Sure, VR surgeon’s site statistics like 98-99% chance to be a success far as return of sperm, especially with guys that are only a short period out. Is that accurate? Probably, but typically these VR clinics do not follow clients out for years. Usually is more like 6-12~ months. If you blow a sample that has motile sperm in it one time, you are part of the 98-99%.
If one side is a failure, or fails down the road, you probably won’t be able to tell which side failed, and/or when it fails. And if one side fails, you won’t be able to prove it either.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, I feel confident saying that many men that defeated pvps that blew excellent samples, went pain free eventually (or very close to it), and haven’t had an SA in 2-4-6-8+ years are likely sterile again, yet still pain free. That’s just my opinion on many, if not the majority of cases.
Most all guys have no data about their pre vas selves to compare notes with either (sperm count and motility, testosterone, etc). This generally leads to many assumptions, and is by no means accurate.
Figured I’d also add a blurb regarding statistics on reversal being successful far as pain relief. Generally speaking, around 70%~ is the magic number quoted by the majority. I’ve seen 90% and higher quoted by at least one pvps doc, and more recently I’m seeing 50/50 quoted by some other respected docs. Once again, I do believe 70%~ is about right, but giving men a 50/50 may be better in the long run to cover everyone’s ass (the client, and the VR doc’s ass). Basically, don’t get anyone’s hopes up to high.
All right, well I’ll tell you another reason. My wife used to play with my boys quite a bit and I was really into it. My vasectomy surgeon told me nothing would change in the feeling department. Now we don’t dare do anything to them because it’s takes almost nothing to cause a flare up. This has us both kinda depressed. I want to feel normal again and not like I’m made of glass. I know of no other surgery that has the potential to undo what I’ve done.
I’ve been reading many posts on this forum, recently a lot about reversals and guys recovery journeys. What @RingoStar said it’s sadly very true, a lot of reversals scar over and block, but there are also reports of men who stay open. From what I’ve learned, it’s a luck of the draw, there are ways you can increase chances of staying open, but mainly it’s down to individual healing process.
I’ve had a very rough journey with my vasectomy, paid a very high price, and decided to get reversal done for my own peace of mind. This is just my personal opinion, but if I never went for it, I would’ve always wondered what if I had it done? This will be a closure for me. I am quietly hoping I will be pain free and hopefully become fertile again and can move on with my life.
Time is the best healer. My own family doctor - who’s a very, very bright woman - told me that my issues would heal up in time. She informed me that in her practice alone- which is one of the busiest in the city I live in - 400 guys had been referred for vasectomy and they’ve never had a problem. This woman - who doesn’t receive any payment from the vasectomy surgeons - is a very ethical and decent woman who has been very kind / supportive for many years vis-a-vis other issues. She’d warned me against seeking advice on internet fora - as I was becoming very distressed / depressed the more I read online.
I’m sorry if I sound preachy - it’s an occupational hazard of mine.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
I find it interesting at best that guys who have had multiple corrective procedures that they themselves have admitted didn’t help, and in some cases made them worse, can encourage guys who are thinking of having a procedure. Like who are these people? Like you are supposed to do what they did, like they know best, even considering it didn’t help them and made them worse.
It goes both ways @RingoStar
@Bry I think it’s a good idea to start a conversation with some docs.
My own family doctor … informed me that … 400 guys had been referred for vasectomy and they’ve never had a problem … This woman … is a very ethical and decent woman
The only actual scientific studies I am aware of imply that somewhere between 4 and 40 of those men who she assumes never had a problem developed chronic pain.
How does she know they didn’t? How many of them has she called on the phone to follow up? I would be very surprised if she has called any of them.
Furthermore, I would bet that some of those men did complain of pain for a while and were told to “give it time” and then they stopped coming back to that urologist. Maybe they switched to a different urologist, like I did. Maybe my surgeon is in her office right now giving pre-op counselling and not making any mention of my situation.
I have no doubt that your doctor wishes to be ethical, but to achieve a high level of ethics people need critics to point out their lapses. Personally I consider it a breach of professional ethics to quote anecdotal incidence rates that are rosier than those that can be backed up by proper studies.
Then why did you come here and do so much compulsive reading? Why did you diagnosis yourself with irreparable nerve damage? Why did you create an account in the first place?
I was referring to a family doctor, as opposed to a urologist, and no vasectomies are carried out in the practice.
My family doctor - who also happens to be my wife’s family physician - had to quantify the risks to both of us before arriving at a suggestion. It’s obvious that the potential health risks posed to my wife from continuing to take the pill after the age of 40 (17 years of taking it) or the coil implant etc. far outweighed the risks that I faced.
Put yourself in the doctor’s shoes for a moment - potential fatal risk factors for my wife or a remote possibility of low grade pain for me.
I’m glad I took the hit as I couldn’t live with myself if something serious happened to my extraordinary wife who has been for me through thick and thin.